Hello and welcome to Live like the World Is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I am one of your three hosts today. Possibly three and a half, depending on how we're counting things. I'm Margaret Killjoy. This is a podcast that feels is for podcast. It's. It is what I already said it is. And with me today are Miriam and Inman. Hi, how are you all?

Dude, just. Just doing just fucking great, you know, the world's fine.

That's why it's called this month. In the regular degular normal world, that's what we call this show.

Yep. Just. Just this month in stability and pleasantness.

Yay.

Okay. I do feel like, though there's this funny. Like, I remember doing these like a year or two years ago and it being like, okay, like, you know, I mean, a million things always happen, but like, was like digging for more, like apocalyptic things. And now I'm just like, we could do.

Yeah, we can't cover it all.

Yeah, we could do this every day and still not like, yeah, once we

have Apocalypse times, our new news. That's our goal if we get six times as many Patreon supporters. But this podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero network of anarchist podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show on the network. People need ordering principles. 12 rules for what is a podcast about fascism in the far right? From the perspective of the left, it's obviously great stuff, but don't take our word for it. Here is a word from our sponsor. I'm Jordan Peterson. Now that I have been injected with the anti fascist super soldier serum, I renounce all my rubbish beliefs about hierarchies and the distribution of sex and dedicate my life, my Soul, to the 12 rules. But what podcast? So that's 12 rules for what? A podcast about the far right. Get it anywhere you get your podcasts. 12 rules. And we're back. So, Miriam, how's Texas?

So you'll be shocked to know I have bad news out of Texas.

What? So bigger in Texas, including the bad news?

Yeah, no, it's pretty big. It's pretty big. The bad news. And they. That is one of their main exports right now. Look, the economy has to run on something bad.

Bad humor or not bad humor, Bad news out of Texas humor.

I think bad news out of Texas is a mountain goat song. All right, please continue. Sorry.

So the. The specific bad news out of Texas is that we have a verdict in the Prairieland case, and it's very bad. This was the trial of Nine people, eight of whom were present at a noise demo outside of an ICE facility in Texas last 4th of July. One of those defendants was convicted of firearm charges and attempted murder for allegedly wounding a police officer during an exchange of gunfire. Everyone else was convicted for essentially being in some way involved despite clear evidence that they had nothing to do with the shooting. The federal government has labeled all of the defendants an antifa terror cell. How are we pronouncing antifa these days when it's coming from the federal government?

I don't know. I, I, I like say it so often in both ways by accident now. But it's like antifa, right? But like it's definitely antifa.

Antifa, yeah.

But I understand that sometimes you just hear antifa so much that it blurs into.

Well, and when it's coming from the feds, it really does feel like antifa.

Yeah.

So I'm guessing most listeners will know why that claim is horseshit. But just to be super clear, antifa is not a membership organization. Membership organizations include isis, the KKK, and the Girl Scouts of America. Just as random examples.

Equal moral weight. Like what's going on here?

All equally good at cookies. That's definitely not true. That is, that is definitely not true. The KKK could never. No, none of the K stand for cookies. What am I talking about? Antifa is an ethos of on the ground resistance to fascism and is therefore more analogous to environmentalism or feminism than to the Girl Scouts of America or the kkk. It is a term that can be used to describe a person or group's goals, philosophy, actions, or political legacy, but it's not an organization with a membership role or, and I cannot stress this enough, fucking terror cells. Someone considering themselves antifa does not meaningfully link them to any other person who might use that term. I, I feel like I say that all the time, but I'm saying it now. Apart from the one shooter, most of the defendants in this case were convicted of rioting and providing material support for terrorism, as well as explosive charges related to fireworks that were present on again, the 4th of July in Texas. When, where I think fireworks grow on trees. Texas hates the fourth of July.

Yeah, Texas is unpatriotic. That's the, that's the news.

There is to be clear, no allegation that any harm was done with the fireworks, as far as I'm aware. This isn't like people used fireworks in a way that caused a fire or something. This is just. You had explosives anyway. Yeah, the sort of tweet sized versions of this story. Tweet sized analyses of this story are as, as you might predict, focused on the wrong things. People have been convicted of providing material support to terrorists and part of the basis of that conviction was having been wearing black block and having been in signal chats with someone who fired a gun at law enforcement. And one person was convicted of corruptly concealing a document for moving zines around. And the interpretation of this that many people seem to have run with is the courts said it's illegal to wear black block, use signal or have zines. And that's just not accurate. What's actually the case is a different, still very bad thing. The acts of wearing black, using signal and having zines themselves are not being criminalized. But what has been criminalized in this case is any sign of association between the defendants who are not alleged to have actually participated in any violence, and the person who exchanged gunfire with law enforcement. Now, there is some ambiguity around what exactly constitutes each of the charges that they were convicted of, specifically the material support to terrorism. My inference from what I've read and talking to some people is that that is probably mostly, if not mostly about the, the attempted murder charge around the exchange of gunfire.

And then my inference is like that it is slightly more ambiguous. I think there's three different things that could count as terrorism. And this is off the top of my head, so I could be wrong about this. And one of them is the violence against law enforcement, and one of them is use of fire or explosives in a crime. And I believe it came up in court that specifically, like gunpowder is enough for that. And so the fireworks count for that. But I know there's also the separate fireworks explosives charge and then also the destruction of property.

Yeah. Which was like slashing tires of vehicles and stuff like that.

One person said, hey, I did that and I believe it's one of the cooperating witnesses. And so it's, it's very frustrating that there's this ambiguity about what constitutes domestic material support for terrorism because we don't know what exactly the precedent that it is saying, but we have ideas and it's just, it's frustrating to me that they obviously care the most about a copying shot. But like, we don't know. I, my understanding is that we don't know if that is what the jury was instructed to use as what counts for material supported terrorism.

Right. So we know very little about what the jury was told and we're, we're going to talk a little bit more about that later. But the, the main thing That I want to point out here is that what's. What's being sort of taken away from all this in a lot of the, like, shallower readings is, you know, that the court has said, well, you were wearing black and you're a member of. Of this terror organization, and that's all illegal. And that's not exactly what has happened. Rather, they. You were wearing all black, and that proves that you were in a conspiracy with other people. And that's different. But it's not better.

Yeah, exactly. You're like, oh, they criminalize zines. They're like, well, not really. They just use zines as evidence to say that you're a terrorist. It's different.

Right. They use.

It's not a crime, it's just evidence of a crime.

Exactly. They didn't.

There's a crime anywhere in the vicinity

that, you know, it's illegal for you to be having this reading material. They're just saying that because you had this reading material and you tried to move it around, you were attempting to conceal a crime. Different, but not better. Yeah, because.

Or maybe a clarifying question. It's like the fear here that everyone has is. And ever. By everyone, I mean, every single person ever, is that, like, ideology is being criminalized. And it's like they're trying to do that by criminalizing a lot of things that specifically relate to ideology.

Well, again, they're not so much criminalizing the things related to ideology as using indications of ideology as evidence of connection to a crime.

Okay, cool.

And I think that that's, like, that's important because it is important to understand, like, what is actually happening here. And when you see people online sort of taking this and running with it and sort of going like, oh, they're trying to outlaw zines. They're trying to outlaw black block, because that's not actually what's happening. There's nowhere really for that energy to go, for that, like, outrage and indignation that people have over that. There's nowhere for it to go because, like, they are, in fact, not trying to outlaw those things. They are making it much more dangerous to be somebody who engages with either of those things.

And I will say, though, that with black block in particular, I think there is a read where it is kind of criminalizing black bloc because not wearing all black. They have not criminalized that. But if black block is a. A tactic that provides anonymity to its participants, that is, it could be said, it could be argued in court that you have helped someone escape, and if that person committed a crime of just property destruction against a government building. Let's say. I, I think that this is a. I think with Black Block specifically, it kind of really opens the door to the criminalization of that tactic.

Right. And what's, what I think is really interesting and dangerous about this is that Black Bloc is consciously used as a tactic to provide anonymity.

Right.

And you could be at, you know, you. Whoever could be at a event where people are blocked up and you could be wearing Black Block and somebody could do something dangerous, but something you agree with, like, say, getting in the face of a fascist live streamer, maybe something not even illegal. Right. But you provide them that protection by being in Black Block. Somebody in Black Block could also do something extremely illegal and maybe something you don't agree with. But the courts could say, well, you were still providing them that protection. Now you had no control over what they did. Right. This is not a case where like, you sat down with somebody and said, okay, you go do XYZ and then I will help you hide. This is a place where you provided, you helped to provide an environment of anonymity, and then somebody else chose to do something with that anonymity that you are now being blamed for. And that's.

I remember I spent a night in foreign detention in Rotterdam convinced I was going to spend like the next 10 years in prison or whatever, because I was part of a group that someone in that group, I have no idea who, genuinely, I just met these people cut the fence at a immigrant detention center. And like. And so someone cut that fence, so they mass arrested all of us. And in the Netherlands, I remember this, this is relevant. I'm not just trying to dredge up some cred. This is like my only cred. I've told this story way too many times. But in the Netherlands, they had a criminal association law that basically said if you're part of a group and someone in the group does a crime, you can go to jail for that. And I remember thinking to myself, like, oh my God, I'm so glad the US doesn't have that. What a terrible law. But what's particularly interesting is that I was also coming from an American sense of how long criminal punishments are. And I know people who had spent years in prison for trespassing at the School of Americas. Right. You know, the, the place that trains assassins that they send to the third World. And so I remember thinking, I'm going to spend the rest of my life in prison because someone did this crime. And it. And they let me Go the next day.

But, you know, and we're very glad they did.

And so, so it's, it's, it's. I think a lot about this idea of. Yeah. This criminal association. This, like if you're part of a crowd and someone breaks the law in that crowd, you're suddenly on the hook for it. Is it absolute authoritarian overreach?

Yeah, no, it's a, it's a nightmare policy. It is a nightmare approach too. I mean, and it just doesn't, it does not comport with like, anybody's actual understanding of individual action and action.

Responsibility.

And the responsibility, like you are not responsible for the actions of another person who happens to have picked the same outfit as you. Yeah, and it is, it is. You know, and considering that the, that the government would be very hard pressed to. You would not be able to convince them that, say, the entire NYPD should be punished for a police officer murdering somebody, they would be like, no, nobody should be punished for a police officer murdering somebody. Our uniform indemnifies all of us from blame. Your quasi uniform puts the blame on all of you. And that's the difference. Fuck you. I believe that's the government's approach.

Well, actually, can we talk about law enforcement? Indemnity. Is that the word? And as it relates to Prairieland, I don't know if you have more about this thing. I want to get.

I have more I want to say

about this later on.

Yeah. So, yeah, what we're seeing, as I said, is this trend, which is something that has been happening for a long time in terms of the government trying to use any instances of something that they can, you know, call violence to, you know, kind of discredit entire movements, but actually seeking to link activists very, very tenuously to either violent crime or property crime and seek to charge them as, as co conspirators. This is like, this is something that we need to be worried about. Um, it's something we should be on the lookout for much more than any fear that like, the government is coming after a certain type of clothing or literature, um, because this is how movements are actually suppressed. And to be clear, the outcome of this trial is not just awful, doesn't just have terrible implications for how the government will be strategizing around suppression of anti ice organizing. But there are all kinds of irregularities and weirdness around the trial itself, including an earlier mistrial based on a defense attorney wearing a pretty innocuous T shirt, witness testimony from under their jacket.

I don't think it was visible.

I think you had to Be really paying attention. And then I think you had to be really angry that somebody was wearing a T shirt of a civil rights figure.

I read all the court notes about the two different jury pools and the first jury pool that the mistrial was on seemed a lot more sympathetic.

Well, I'm going to talk about the jury because things are weird with the jury. There was also witness testimony from the state's cooperating witnesses that absolutely contradicted the prosecution's claims.

Oh yeah.

Defense attorneys being prohibited from and punished for trying to file routine pre trial motions to ensure prosecutorial compliance with the Constitution. Attorneys being prevented from voir during potential jurors. And there are even reports of. Of noisy and possibly even physical conflict among the actual jury.

Amongst each other.

Yes.

Wow.

So the entire trial is a fucking mess. The evidence just is not there. And I think that, that this demonstrates just how eager the federal government is to find ways to punish people for organizing. Particularly when that organizing goes beyond things like, you know, permitted rallies and marches. And if you are doing this work, you should be aware of this case and what future prosecutions could look like. We're all taking on risk all the time. There are many elements of this that are outside of our control. But that said, I think that it could benefit all of us to look at this case and consider where with the benefit of hindsight, people might have been more able to protect themselves. I'm absolutely not trying to victim blame here, but I do think that a lesson we can take away from this might be that when someone in a group chat with us starts talking about shooting guns at anyone, we should be considering leaving that group chat immediately. This is not just don't text anything you wouldn't want read back to in court, but potentially don't stay in active communication with someone who is texting you things you don't want read back in court. Yeah, we need to be really careful about what we talk about in text based communication. Adding in Minecraft does not help. Please take this shit seriously when you consider how much of a risk you are taking on when you talk shit or stay in a space with someone who is talking shit. And understand, I am not passing judgment on the contents of what anybody said. I am passing judgment on the idea of putting things in writing and staying in text communication with somebody who is putting things in writing. Like that is something we should really reconsider. It exposes you not only to conspiracy charges, but to having yourself and your communications subpoenaed. We're not talking about like I'm not saying like don't believe things, don't tell edgy jokes, but I am talking about what kind of things the government is able to claim that you were involved in planning if you allow somebody to text you about things. So yeah, and I also, I need to bring up the fact that two of the defendants, Autumn Hill and Megan Morris, are trans women currently being held in men's prisons.

So they're being forcibly detransitioned right now.

Please support the work that the defendant support team is doing, which you can [email protected] we can put that link in the thing. And you know, just because I'm the hope guy, you could tell. Right. I'll also point out that sentencing and appeals have both not happened yet. And given the extent of the shit show that the trial was, they're is a solid basis for appeals, just given how goddamn messy everything was. So, you know, there is some hope here. We are not yet sure what people's sentence will be. And as always, you know, writing to people while they are being held and contributing financially to their defense, their support is useful and you should do it. And also leave group chats if people start talking about doing crime in them.

So one of the things I want to say about Prairieland first, can I speedrun what I believe happened at Prairieland for people who have made it this far and are like, what the fuck are y' all talking about?

Sure, yeah. I would be surprised if people were unfamiliar, but I know.

But one of the things that's very complicated is that the Prairieland defendants, for very understandable reasons, didn't really put out a narrative about what happened pretrial.

Totally.

So for about a year, anarchists and folks were like, oh yeah, we support these people who are arrested. We don't actually know what happened. Like maybe a cop got shot. But then there was a period where people were like, oh, the wounds in the back of the neck, which is actually just about that's where the exit wound was. But there wasn't really a coherent narrative put out again that was necessary as a defense strategy that they didn't know exactly what was going to happen. They also didn't know whether they were going to be able to like for example, make a self defense case. There was a noise demonstration. And the stuff that we were talking about about group chats is that they were all part of these signal groups. And a lot of sketchy things were said in those signal groups, although specifically people were like, talked down some of the cooperating witnesses who are at meetings were saying that this person, Benjamin Song, the shooter, brought up ideas of like, hey, we should try and free the ICE detainees and stuff. And people were like, nope, that's not what we're doing here. And so they had a noise demo instead. And then they. People were like, should we bring guns? And there were. Seemed to be near consensus that we shouldn't bring them physically on our person. The exception of this person, Benjamin Song, he said, no, I'm going to bring mine anyway. I'm not going back to jail.

And Benjamin Song had also not just talked about freeing detainees and not just talked about bringing a gun, but had specifically talked about laying down suppressive fire. Yeah. Which is one of the things that ended up being something that we all didn't want to hear read back in court.

No, no, absolutely not. And so there's this. There's this. A couple different narratives that I think people have. And the state tried to prove this narrative that the whole thing was an ambush and that they went there to kill cops. And I think they didn't prove that even to the jury. And I think that because no one got attempted murder except Benjamin's Song, I think that the state. I think that the case. It was a noise demo, and that seemed to be generally agreed upon. Miriam, you're gonna say something?

Oh, yeah. Just that the. The fact that they. They sort of tried to construct this. This idea that the purpose of the noise demo was to lure cops into a situation where they would be shot.

Right.

Is just, like, laughably false. But, like, so is everything else they're saying. So it's kind of hard to be like, well, obviously they didn't prove that, but I think you're right that other people would have. The charges would have stuck on other people if they had felt like that had been proved.

I don't think the jury was convinced that people. It's really hard to imagine someone as unintelligent as showing up with only one person armed to go ambush a federal facility by standing out front and yelling at them like that is. They tried to prove that antifa is just morons. I don't know the polite way to say this, you know, and that didn't work. And I want to see that defense

like, argument in court where someone's just like, do I look like a fucking moron?

Yeah, like, look, I know I don't got higher education degrees, but, like, so one of the things, the fact that the. The state. About a week into the trial, the judge says, you can't argue self defense and this is obviously very complicated because there's a couple different narratives about what happened. And one of them that I see common on the sort of among some people is this sort of like everyone went to a noise demo, but this person, Benjamin Song, sort of fucked it all up. Right. And it's true that Benjamin Song was like kind of saying the sketchiest stuff. And I don't know any of these people. I probably wouldn't want to be going to noise demonstrations with someone who has this attitude. But there's this thing that I think that is scary and complicated to talk about, which I think it is very likely that the fact that no one died on July 4 last year at this demonstration was because Benjamin Song was armed and shot a cop. Because it came up multiple times in the. As, you know, as people talk to the cop who was shot, the cop survived, the cop had drawn a gun. The neither side argues with the material facts that there was a noise demonstration outside this prison. A cop got a call saying, I don't know what's happening, they're attacking the blah, blah, blah. The cop shows up within a few seconds, I think it's three seconds, draws a gun and points it at somebody. And we know exactly that everyone could see the gun was drawn because it had a weapon light on it, which is used for positive identification of targets. And the positive identification of a target that this cop is pointing the gun at was an unarmed person who's running away.

Yeah.

And so it can't be argued self defense because police in this country are allowed to shoot unarmed people who are running away. And that's wrong. That is morally wrong that our country allows the police to gun down unarmed people running away. If all of these people were changed to civilians and we told this story, Benjamin Song is a hero. Benjamin Song is a good person with a gun in the right wing rhetoric because they were armed and they saw someone about to murder. Or it would be murder in this above context. It's not murder in this context because it's a police officer, but they saw someone about to shoot an unarmed person in the back and they responded by shooting. I could convince 95% of the people who live in my holler who all vote Trump or don't vote. I could convince 95% of them that Benjamin Song did nothing wrong, even if that person was a cop. However, it will wreck your life.

Yeah.

And that was a decision that Benjamin Song made, was to wreck or end their own life and save this other person's life. Because it even came up in Court. And now a lot of the arguments are like, well, the cop didn't shoot first. That's true. But the cop drew first. And no one argues otherwise. And people on cross examination, the cop was like, and other people also under cross. I think some FBI agents admitted this. The police are trained to draw only to shoot. Now that's not necessarily how they actually act. I have had guns pointed at me by cops more times than I can count. I kind of disassociate while it's happening. So I straight up don't remember every time, you know. But the police draw to shoot and that is their training. And I don't know what to do with that because I basically look at it and I'm like, the problem is that cops are allowed to shoot unarmed people. That is the core problem here from my point of view.

Yeah, no, and when you brought up the. That they were not allowed to claim self defense, even if they had been allowed to make the argument of self defense. Making a self defense argument against a cop just never works.

Like every now and then. But it's usually like some white dude in this.

It's usually a white dude in his home, you know, something like that. But like the, you know, in this case, it was like sort of laid particularly bare because the judge said, you cannot make that argument. But even if they had been allowed to make that argument, those arguments have such a low success rate because like you said, the assumption is you're not really allowed to defend yourself against cops. Yeah, they're allowed to do whatever they want up to and including murder you. And you're not really allowed to fight back even if they are say, pursuing an unlawful warrant or, or something like that. Like, even if they have no legal basis for doing what they're doing, the courts are not kind to people who, who defend themselves. And yeah, I, I think that what you say about the sort of narrative around the night itself is really interesting and like, it is very possibly true that the outcome if song doesn't take action ends up being worse than the outcome that actually happened. And we don't know. We don't know that. But like, I think it's definitely possible. Yeah.

And I'm not saying people should bring guns to protests like this.

I would not make a recommendation on that.

No, I would probably make a recommendation against it. I try not to give recommendations about strategy, but I would probably recommend against having done this and.

But yeah, but yeah, I mean, which is sort of why, like, that's part of the reason I'm like I'm not really gonna say, oh, here's what we learned about armed conflict with law enforcement. We don't know because I kind of don't feel like we did, but I do feel like we learned something about signal chats.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, and the, the truth of it is more of us are in signal chats than are in armed conflict with law enforcement. So I'm in an infinite number of signal chats. So it's impossible for me to say what's happening in any given one. But, yeah, that's, that's me trying to like, get a. Something useful from all this. The other thing that's useful is like, yeah, there's a support crew doing great work and we should help them.

Yeah.

But that's, that's all the bad news from Texas. It's not, it's one specific piece of bad news from Texas. Who's got bad news from another place or good news?

I just suspect it's mostly bad news. Inman, what do you got?

I have a mix of good news and bad news. So originally I was going to talk. Do a little bit more of a deep dive into. So how, and this relates to the Prairie Land stuff is like how the NSPM 7, which is the directive from the Trump administration to investigate entities that it considers to be part of this, like domestic terrorism, blah, blah, blah about antifa, whatever that is, and the parts of it that specifically were targeting, investigating nonprofits as being linked to this anti fob boogeyman that the Trump administration has been trying to.

I like that you came up with a third way of pronouncing it. Yeah,

not antifa or antifa, but a secret thing.

35.

Well, I'm just trying to put it on record that I don't know what this group is or how to pronounce the name. And so that. That could be read back in court in the future that Inman does not know how to, what this, how to pronounce the name of this. And I'm, I'm riding with that.

How do you think they'll pronounce it when they read it back to you in court?

When I, when they read back the transcript that says and then Inman said anti FA and. Or anti antifa. And then I have to correct them and say, excuse me, I believe what I said was anti FA because I didn't understand how to pronounce it, then

you get, then you get a huge backlash from, from fans of the Vietnamese noodle soup fa or like, why are you anti Our good noodle soup.

Well, that's. That's f. And this is fa.

Oh, I thought you. Okay, we're getting off track.

So nonprofits that are being. Nonprofits that are being investigated.

Nonprofits that are being investigated. So one thing that I do actually love is that the world, like, at large, besides the authoritarian entities that we're having to interact with more and more, but the larger world is very confused about the antifa, boogeyman approach and in the ways where like. Like, large, like, organizations that I think are dumb are like, this thing doesn't exist. And it's crazy that the Trump administration has been trying to make the argument that it is this organized group entity, et cetera. And part of the way that the Trump administration has been regime, administration, regime. Let's call it a regime. It is a regime. Has been targeting the left is in these incredibly broad and nebulous ways. And it's one of the things that gives everything that they're doing much less credence to normal people because they're like, what the fuck is he talking about? Because the Trump regime is bad at being a regime.

Yeah.

Like, fascism and authoritarianism have become increasingly less popular, and they're doing every classic thing to be an authoritarian regime. And so people are like, I'm sorry, we've seen this all before. And this is crazy and absurd. Like, when you. When you say that, like, people who don't, like, they're watching their neighbors getting kidnapped are participating in terrorism, everyone's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And then everything that they say starts to mean less and less to normal people. And I think that that will be a very important thing in the future.

They're also, like, bad at a lot of stuff. Like, they're just. And they're sort of like strongman, you know, central figure. It's just the one. They haven't been able to come up with a second guy. And I think they thought it was going to be Charlie Kirk. And the, like, we are all Charlie Kirk thing lasted, like four and a half seconds after he hit the ground.

Like, truly.

And now. Now Candace Owens is accusing Erica Kirk of being, like, a alien or something. Like, it's great.

Hell, yeah.

They. They have not been able to come up. Like, they have one thing, and that is everyone feels like they got to do what Trump says, but they. They're gonna need a second thing at some point.

Yeah. Especially once a brain aneurysm gets in the way.

Just. There's a limit to how much hope

we can talk about totally. But how this relates to nonprofits currently is that they are being. The IRS is being kind of like Trump's trying to use the IRS to like, investigate nonprofits and like, proposing the idea that of like, kind of criminal implicit. More crim. Making criminal tax law a little bit easier to enforce to target nonprofits that the regime believes is air quotes supporting terrorism. And a lot of nonprofits are really scrambling to figure out what that means because no one knows what it means yet. And the ambiguity and the nebularity. That's a word. Is what is terrifying people.

Nebul. Nebulosity.

Nebulosity. Great.

Yeah, I'm making that up. Don't take it seriously.

Nebularity, nebulosity. Get at us in the comments.

Nebulousness. Nebulousness. Yeah.

Well, that just sounds silly. And one of the things. And I think that this paranoia and confusion is part of. It's part of the tactic, because one thing that it does have that I've heard some people talk about is how donors, people with money, are now feeling afraid to give that money to groups that they think are doing cool things because of how they could be implicated later. And I don't believe anything has come of this yet, but I feel like everyone's kind of waiting to see what happens with it in other annoying news. And I think this is where misleading media narratives, especially on social media, can be tricky. So there's this big thing with ProtonMail recently where a Stop Cop City account was linked to someone because of ProtonMail. The narrative is that ProtonMail colluded with the FBI. And what actually happened is that. So ProtonMail, which is a Swiss entity, complied with the Swiss government, which was colluding with the FBI or whatever. I'm going to stick with colluding.

Yeah. We can accuse them of being shitty and criminal even though they're doing something that's perfectly legal. I'm actually okay with this. It sounds sarcastic, but it's not. Totally.

Yeah. I mean, legality is not the defining factor in whether something is a shitty thing to do. Yeah, it's not shitty. It's not illegal to watch TikToks on full volume on the bus. But it's shitty. I don't like it.

Yeah. And so ProtonMail's kind of statement about the whole thing, which ProtonMail has released user information in other cases before, I believe. I think a lot of those cases were related to child pornography or something. And so this is a markedly different instance of them releasing information.

They comply with every lawful order that asks Them to give them information. They're a company. That's what they do. And it's right there when you sign up, you know.

Totally. And what they're doing is complying with a lawful order from the Swiss government. Yeah. And then the Swiss government is giving that information to the FBI, which I'm not saying, I'm not defending ProtonMail here. You should not trust ProtonMail to not give up information. But I also think it's important in the piece of information that was given up, that was able to identify this person was payment data.

Yeah. Because they will give the information they have. And then the whole. It's like this zero trust thing in computer security where it's like you should assume that you can't trust any other computer, so you should only give it information that you would like to see read back to you in court. I'm now mixing my metaphors. And yeah, ProtonMail, I believe, does not have access to the contents of your email. And so they can't give that up. But what they can give up is payment information, which you don't even have to give traceable. You can like mail them an envelope of cash, I think. I haven't, I don't know.

No, that's true. You can, you can actually pay them in cash by mail and you can also use the free version. So, you know.

Yeah. And they're all. There are many alternatives to ProtonMail that are perhaps, maybe less user friendly. I'm sure there is a user friendly version that you can also pay for, but where you can pay in a more. There are alternatives to paying for reliable services in a more anonymous way.

But you can also like, you can pay with crypto with ProtonMail. And like anyone, even the activist organizations, like, I'm not trying to call out Riseup, who's been like the email provider to the anarchists for 25 years or whatever. At least they comply with state orders all the time and they just intentionally don't really have any information. And like, that's just. You're not going to find someone. I mean, I guess there's places that just have even less information, but you need to look at structurally what amount of information is necessary, you know?

Yeah. Oh, this reminds me about something else I wanted to say about nonprofits, which is. So I think that there's a lot of organizations that have like really like there is this weird golden period where a lot of organizations could become nonprofits and do a lot of really cool and awesome stuff through nonprofits. And I think we all need to Analyze our reliance on institutions in general.

That makes sense.

And that institutions that are doing really awesome work. It's like, I don't know. Remember that? Like what. I think it's the. I think it's. I feel like I'm actually not going to name the organization because I don't actually know if they said this, but there's this really rad organization that made in some statement like we, like we were. We were in a nonprofit before we started doing this work and then we became a nonprofit and long after our nonprofit is like stripped away by the federal government, we will be doing this work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That really is actually like, I'm like, yeah, that's awesome.

So, yeah, it's like not inherently wrong to be a non profit. I just don't, I don't know when people are like, oh, you can't feed anyone anymore. It's illegal. You're like, well, fuck you. And I don't know.

Yeah.

Let us get arrested for it constantly.

Let us all remember that slavery was legal. Let us all remember that what the Nazis did was legal by their laws.

Yeah.

Not to mention stop you from doing things. They just stop you from doing things twice.

Some kind of fun. Fun news that I have is. So this was back in February, but it came up on my radar recently. Was so Pete Hagseth who's like a weird fucking clown who like, it's.

Who lifts fake weights. I will never get over the fact that he lifts fake weights.

Yes.

The amount. Sorry, but like, I know this is not the focus of the discussion, but like the amount of gender affirming stuff those guys are doing all the time is like, how dare you?

I know.

How dare you? Yeah. Suspicious. So Scouting America, I want us to do an episode about Scouts at some point and one day we'll get around to having the bandwidth to do it. But Scouting America recently came into national news because Pete Hegseth said that, quote, the Boy Scouts lost their way and became gravely wounded, which I think we should all embrace the blessed side wound. And like, part, like part of his, like part of this quote and part of this, like, ways in which they become gravely wounded is that they accepted girls at all. Just girls blanket.

Like, girls are very dangerous and they will wound you.

Yeah.

With cooties.

Yeah. And there's this trend within Scouting America which like, whatever, Scouting America has these like, military partnerships. So I'm not like Scouting America is the greatest organization that ever existed, but they have been on this, like, progression of like, they started accepting. They started. They Started accepting girls and then they started accepting trans youth and.

Oh, they accepted girls and trans youth without knowing it for years. Yeah. A decade before I did.

Yeah. And so it's like the. And they. They changed their name to be more gender non binary and they're like, yeah, there's been backlash, but it has been overall a great decision because more people are interested in doing this thing. And Hegseth claimed that. Hegseth claimed that Scouting America was going to adopt these new policies based on like air quotes, biological sex, and like all of this stuff. And then Scouting America came out and was like, I'm sorry, we did not say that. And we are not doing that.

Hell yeah.

And explicitly said that trans Scouts are very much still welcome.

Aw, that rules little me with my. My best friend in Boy Scouts was a girl. The woman who ran the Boy Scout troop was a CIS woman farmer who was probably was very butch. I don't know what that says about her sexuality anyway. Whatever. I actually have mostly positive things about Scouting and my own personal experience that has nothing to say about the organization itself, which has like a nightmarish legacy of fostering abuse. But so does every large institution see the aforementioned not trusting institutions.

Absolutely. In a more grim note, there's this really terrifying bill in Idaho called Idaho Bill 822 and it passed the House recently. It's a bill related to social transitioning, which is a terrifying new concept which it's like. So there's obviously a lot of attack on medical transition for trans youth. And the right is unfortunately very successfully attacking the ways in which trans youth can access medical transitioning. And now they are attacking this concept of social transitioning. So this bill would require schools, healthcare providers and childcare providers to inform parents within three days if they are requested to participate in social transitioning, which is a very broad concept which includes asking to be called by a different name. It's literally like observing things like someone dressing differently.

Right. They're literally asking teachers, they're requiring teachers to call the parents if the kid gets to school and changes their shirt or just is present a different way

or not even change his shirt. But like is because they don't know what they came to school in. But like shows up at all in like less like gender determining clothing.

Girls can't wear pants. That's the future. That's the future. It's.

I like, I know I'm not gonna talk anyone out of being a transphobe, but like the way they're like, gender is immutable and it's super important and very, very strong and natural. And boys are like this and girls are like this and you can't change anything about it. Don't you let that girl cut her hair or she'll turn into a boy. Is like Jesus Christ, people.

Yeah.

If it's so powerful, why do you need to legislate it all the time?

Yeah, I think I, for a long time I was trying to figure out why I was at the center of this culture war about a thing that I care so little, right? Like I just like kind of don't give a shit about being trans except that they, I have to because they want to kill us all. And it took me like a really long time to kind of understand why they picked this issue. And it's this, it opens up the idea of just control. It's just a way to fucking be able to like stop anyone from doing anything socially unacceptable by picking something that is like popular enough that people have heard of it and unpopular enough that people are afraid we're going to steal their wives. That's the real reason that individuals are transphobes is that they realize, hear me out. Have I told you the CIS men are obsolete theory? I'm not actually anti cis, I'm completely. And I'm not a misinterest either. I'm opposed to both of those things. But people for a long time were like, well these lesbians can't get anybody pregnant. Like, ah, fuck, it's over for you. Now you actually have to be a good enough person for someone to want to sleep with you. There's no biological imperative anymore. This is my totally rational theory.

No, I think, I think you're, I think you're onto something and like I think you're right too that it is really about. It's so much about control and especially control of youth. Because if they had tried to organize around like parents should be allowed to tell their kids what clothes to wear, people would be like, that seems weird, man. I don't know if your kid is like getting clo. Like what? You know, but if they, but if they frame it around a moral panic, then suddenly the idea that parents should be able to control every aspect of their kids lives just flows naturally from the idea that parents should be able to control their kids gender and I hate it.

Yeah, it's dumb. And like I think there's this big thing happening, especially with teachers too where teachers are really being conscripted to be the opposite of what teachers are supposed to be, I think which is that I think we all can remember or most of us maybe even have this experience of having teachers that really challenged our views about dominant society or just shit that our family would tell us and offering something else to consider. And so it's like that institution or that role is really being attacked right now in a lot of ways. Even with there's a ton of efforts right now to find ways to criminalize teachers supporting or like air quotes, participating or helping or like convincing students to participate in social advocacy and activism, especially around like ICE protests. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And it's crazy. And like there's a lot of teacher unions that are starting to form again and I'm really stoked about that.

This. The stuff you're saying also goes hand in hand with school book bans and stuff. Like literally saying like, no, no, we want to protect our kids from knowledge when they go to school.

Yeah.

Not, you know, not like just, God, I hope they find their way into the library and find a book that they are actually interested in reading. But like, no, we gotta, we gotta protect them from that possibility totally.

Well, I had more stuff, but I'm going to pass it off to Margaret. The one sentence thing on my other thing is the DOJ is failing at prosecuting people in Minneapolis because it's becoming incredibly apparent that officers are just lying.

What Officers lying in court?

No way.

All right, so to kind of go off of. One of the things I want to talk about is the expanding surveillance state. And the thing is that Democrats are in on this too. And I think that overall the old the both sides are the same, blah, blah, blah rhetoric has started to fall flat in America because that used to be very true. And then the Republicans became a literal fascist party instead of a slightly more right wing party. There is a push for more and more control over everything we do. And I think it is one of the most existential problems we face in addition to fascism and climate change is the surveillance state to use as an example. There's increasing like Colorado has a law that's on the, not on the books, but that's being pushed forward about this. And the EU is fucking around with this idea. Age verification and computers is a problem. And I am at the point where I have spent enough time watching people pretend like laws are to protect kids when actually it's to criminalize everybody that I'm not even going to give lip service to this. It's like, I don't give a age verification. I grew up fine seeing all kinds of horrible on the Internet. I Don't want kids to see that. I kind of wish I hadn't. And like, there's great tools that parents can use that are already existent with which to deal with it.

But the idea, parenting, parenting is the

thing that people came up with.

God forbid you might have to like talk to your fucking kids about what they're experiencing in the world and be there for them.

And so right now, basically there's this idea that our operating systems itself should require age verification. Anyone who's like, used, I know that some social media platforms have started doing this where you have to not just hold up an id, but hold it next to your face as you turn your face, as the AI can recognize you or whatever, all this garbage. Don't do that. I rarely give specific recommendations on this, but we need to stop this. We need to refuse to participate in things that demean us in this way. I'm absolutely going to turn into an old grouchy libertarian way before my time. But like, we cannot accept this. The ramifications of the level of control, they, the fact that they want your computer to know who you are and have been verified about who you are. The knock on effects from this are disastrous. We are absolutely, and all of this sounds hyperbolic, except it's just real. We are barreling towards 1984. We are barreling towards. You know, I remember when I read that as a kid being like, oh, the TV watches you. Yeah, your TV fucking watches you. It also knows what you watch. It sells that data. It's the reason that TVs are cheaper than monitors is because they sell the data. One of the people buying that data, one of the headlines that I want to talk about, Kash Patel, the director of the FBI, admitted it recently that he's just like, yeah, we have every intention of continuing to buy American citizens data, location data, specifically, because it was for a long time they would just go to cell phone companies, be like, yo, where's that permanent tracker that this person carries around at all times? Where's she been? But the courts eventually were like, you kind of need a warrant to get that information. So they came up with this great loophole. The commercially available data about your location that you have been letting, including myself here, letting advertisers take from you, right? Because you're like, well, I don't really care that Instagram knows that I'm into this thing and gives me targeted advertisements because it doesn't really hurt me. It, it does now. When we lived in a non fascist society, it was different and it still wasn't good, but it matters now. So that's one of my big things. Age verification is going to be required in operating system level in a lot of places. Increasingly there are likely going to be workarounds about this that'll get increasingly complicated. However, this needs to be pushed back on. And I think that there's a chance that this is going to be an overreach that will eventually get people to fight back. As always, people come for like sex workers first. And so this has of course had a dramatic impact for years on the online sex industry. All kinds of, you know, content creators have been cut out of things, cut out of payment processors and all of these things. Anyway, one government overreach thing that is possibly being not defeated, but it's not as bad as it was a second ago is Oregon was considered. Oh crap, maybe it was Washington. Oh fuck. I don't have my notes in front of me. I only have a tiny bit of my notes in front of me. One of them northwest liberal states wants to ban 3D printing guns. And the way that they want to do that is they will want to require all three. They wanted to require all 3D printers to have snitch wear in them that says this is what someone is printing and therefore can like scan objects and use AI to determine whether or not it's a gun or a gun shaped object and not let you print it and or report you to the authorities. That's bad. That is absolutely bad. And as always, it's not just about your right to 3D print guns, which isn't a very good way to get guns, but the ability for them to start saying we need to put more and more software, like computers used to make us more free and now they make us less free. I'm really worked up about this. Y' all probably picked up on it then the other things that I have as like headlines. Fortune.com is predicting a major global economic collapse. This is not necessarily like, this is not like a Mad Max collapse that they're calling, calling for, expecting to happen. They think it's going to be like 1929 to 1945 levels, which obviously didn't go great. Also we might have ocean weather models are predicting the first year with a blue ocean event. Which sounds cool, right? Blue ocean. That's, that's nice.

When they're supposed to be blue, right?

Yeah, we want it to be blue.

We love it.

Yeah. Blue ocean event means no Arctic ice.

Oh, like no new Arctic ice.

So I got real confused while reading about this it seems to be like they're talking about possibly like huge swaths of the Arctic will be free of ice in the summer. So it's not new. There is new winter ice coming. Okay, but the summer is going to melt so much that there will be no ice in places there's supposed to be ice. And it's not a literal entirely free. A blue ocean event is legally distinct from no Arctic ice, even though it gets called no Arctic ice. But no, it's, it's, it's worse than just no new Arctic ice. It's like, like, y', all, this is the fucking end times.

Yeah.

Humanity might survive. So people look back and be like, oh, Mara, killjoy was fucking sky is falling. And you're like, no. Like, the problem is, is that fascism was always the mini boss and we're being beat by it because the real boss is climate change. And in order to beat climate change, we need to have a functioning global society that us as a, as a people of Earth to confront and address the biggest existential issue ever faced by humanity, which is climate change. And, and it's, it sucks. And I. And then the final on environmental. And it's like barely even gets noticed. And I understand why there's war and all this. That over that looks bigger to people on and is more on people's radars. But Trump has put out an executive order demanding that domestic timber production reach 1960s levels, which is the peak of domestic timber production when you're talking about, I think it's a billion board feet per year or something like that. And so they want to start with the blm, the Bureau of Land Management, which is one of the two big public land things in the United States. They want to put 2.5 million acres in 17 counties in Oregon up on the chopping block. This includes an awful lot of old growth forest that's been protected for a long time that people have bled and died to protect. If you've never been to old growth forest, you need to. And you honestly should do it soon. The same as you should go look at glaciers because. Or fish existing in the ocean. Or sometimes I think about how many bugs used to be in the world and we don't even notice that all the bugs are gone. Like, even just thinking back 20 years ago, the number of bugs you murder by driving down the highway, you don't notice that happening anymore because they're fucking gone. Because we've killed them and we've killed them through our own inaction or through our own action. So 2.5 million acres, including an awful lot of old growth, including a place called Valley of the giants. And 51 acres of 400 to 500 year old trees are possibly going to get cut. The one weird silver lining, modern sawmills aren't even equipped to deal with old growth. No one does it. And the other thing that's worth knowing about something like the timber sale program because you're like, okay, well we need to rely less on domestic imports and hey, you use wood. I live in a, I'm literally saying this from a wood framed house right now, right? Public land and cutting of old growth is not only not necessary to meet our timber needs, it is to our economic detriment. Public land timber sale programs lose the American taxpayer money. And I kind of hate framing things in that way and I did when I was a forest defender sitting in trees. But it's worth understanding the amount of money that it takes to log public land is more than the fucking money it brings in. And the reason it happens is because of the timber lobby. It, because they, there's a, it's just a machine and we're caught up in this machine and it's killing us and we're all waiting for someone else to fix it. And if you believe in the system, you're waiting for the system to fix it. And if you don't, you realize that if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go all together and we just don't know how. And sorry. Oh, and then my final note on the weird over, over exaggeration of Democrats are also coming for your rights. Okay, one, I'm going to really quickly rant about fucking gun stuff. And guns are. I, I still wish I could uninvent guns. I'm not trying to say that it is meaningless, that people look at the problem of violence in this country and think we should do something about this. As soon as Democrats get political capital, the big primary issue they seem to be doing is not enshrining a woman's right to choose, not, I don't know, God forbid, protecting the environment. It's like banning the most popular rifle in America, only in blue states. So the Democrats are actively trying to disarm all Democrats and are incapable of disarming Republicans. And so what the Democrats are using their political capital for right now is making themselves weaker, physically weaker and physically less capable of dealing with the conflict. That it is not a wingnut thing to think that a civil war might happen in this country anymore. Five years ago people were like Whoa. That's crazy. It's regular New York Times front cover shit that people are aware that that might happen. Also in New Jersey, they're trying to require that all E bikes and possibly even all bicycles are registered as motorcycles. And so you'll have to insure and register and whatever. And it's not even possible to comply with the law at the moment. Democrats love passing laws about registering shit that. There isn't even a system by which they could do it. There's not a system by which people can do this shit.

People just want health care.

I know.

They just want fucking health care.

I know. I almost wish I won. I almost wish I believed in voting because I was like, you know, I. What. What if we start a program that is, like, people get health care. People can afford where they live. And you know what? If you live in the country, you can keep your fucking gun in the country. You can even probably make both sides happy by saying you can't have a gun in the city, and you can have it as soon as you leave the city. Everyone's fucking happy.

Yeah, but Pete hagseth needs. Needs $20 million a month for lobster and steak.

Oh, my God.

Oh, the Pentagon. You mean the place that is getting all the journalists kicked out? There's so many things I. Yeah, well,

hey, everyone, there's a thing about war, too, and. Well, and there's also this thing happening with war, too, and we didn't get to talk about it too much.

You know, we can only. We can only cover so many horsemen per episode.

Yeah. And it's. It's. It's been in the news. It matters, and it's worth reading about. But any. Any final thoughts before we go to Outros? Oh, we were gonna try and end on a hopeful note. I am crying, but hope. What has given me hope? Every fascist system that has ever existed has fallen. That gives me some hope. Also. More people are armed. The left is more armed. Progressives are more armed. And also people are trying to do it smarter and better. And with understanding that if you don't run out and buy a gun, to be clear, learning how to use a gun. Run out and learn how to use a gun. It's a very different thing. A lot of people should not keep guns in their house. If you do choose to keep a gun in your house, it needs to be locked at all times and only in control, only controllable by the people by whom it should be controlled. That is not the solution to your problems. At the same time, it's so Much harder to genocide arm people. That's my hope. That's my fucking go. Oh, the fucking whales came back. Oh, yeah, Back for a while, but there's been, like, new reporting about the fact that, like, all that massive conservation effort, the one that they're trying to undo. All right now.

Yeah, yeah, it was working.

It was working.

Yeah.

Yeah. Something I think about a lot is Star Trek. And specifically, specifically the fact that in the best Star Trek movie, it was such a assumption at the time the movie was being made that whales are headed for extinction. That it made sense for the plot of the movie to hinge around having to go back to now to get whales to save the world. And, like, we just have whales now. Like, we.

Does that mean that worked?

Huh?

Does that mean it worked? Did they come back?

They had to. They had to talk to an alien thing that was trying to. Have you not seen this?

No, I've seen it like, eight times. But what I'm trying to say is that it's. They succeeded. They saved the whales. We just didn't notice.

We're living in the timeline where they saved the whales.

We're living in the post. The post Kirk Spock whales saving timeline. No, but, like, actually my. My hopeful thing is how well habitat restoration and, like, and rewilding works. Like, every time I see a story where it's like, yeah, we just. We just took down this dam and now what do you know, all the salmon are back and every. Everything's great. Like, I'm oversimplifying, but, like, every time land is restored and habitats are restored and species come back from the brink, that's cool and good. And I do derive a lot of hope from that because there is, I think this. The thing that is such an overwhelming source of fear in the climate apocalypse that we're looking at is like, this could all. Just. Everything good could be gone. And it's helpful to realize that that restoration is also something that we are capable of. Humans are not just capable of destruction, they are also capable of stopping destruction and sometimes even restoring what has been destroyed to. To a certain extent. And, like, I'm not saying. And so it's all okay, or everything will be like it was, or just,

you know, people have to actually do it.

Yeah. And the fact that we are capable of doing it means we. We gotta. Yeah. So that's something that I'm clinging to. White knuckled, you know, right this very moment. And it's spring, so it's always nice to survive. February and now most of March and spring happens. It happens every time, actually. No matter how much I stop believing in it in like the depths of February. So there you go. That's it. That's hope. I don't know. Look, here's a dog.

Oh. What's bringing me hope is that the. And this is a weird. Is I feel like everyone's gonna be like, that's what's hopeful to you, Inman? And I'm gonna be like, you know, sort of. I don't know, the illusion that for most normal ass people, like, like we are no longer the doom criers that everyone is looking at. And it is bringing me a little bit of hope that people that more and more just regular ass people, like, which I'm whatever, I'm a regular ass person, but I'm also the person on the corner shouting, the end is nigh. You know, is that more people are like kind of the illusion that we can, like, quietly just ignore stuff is like really being shattered. And people are realizing that they can't. That we can't just ignore things. We can't just sit on the sidelines. And more and more I see people, like, when they're faced with those situations being like, okay, let's fucking go.

Yeah. No, it's true. And that's what I mean, what's giving me hope is Minneapolis. And I know Minneapolis is not in the same situation it was two months ago when people were paying more attention to it. But that thing about them having a hard time prosecuting people and like, just that people can come together and I mean, like, frankly, in Minneapolis, they like, look, they all broke a fuck ton of laws. Like, everyone in Minneapolis just broke a fuck ton of federal laws. You know, like, they're like, what do you mean? People are trying to get. They're trying to charge people with interfering with an officer just because I was interfering with officers, you know, and like, and. And that rules that people, at the end of the day can. Can look to themselves and say, I'm gonna do what's right and not what's safe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I clearly only bent it. I tried to break it, but it's still there.

I want to see that argument. I want to see that argument in court. Someone being like, I clearly did not break the law because it's still there. So this is no the other way.

Be like, oh, I broke the law. Sick. Law's done. You're gonna have to make it again if you want it again.

Just by just all of our, like, fantasy, you're on the stand and Things that you can say to a court and they have to listen to you. Okay, well, we should wrap up. All right.

It's been a pleasure. If you listen to this episode and you thought to yourself, it sure is nice that this episode gets to exist and this whole podcast gets to exist. And I was thinking, I'd like to help make that happen. I'd like to be part of making that happen. Well, you can go to patreon.com strangers in the tangled Wilderness, and you can support us there. And in Min is laughing because clearly, in my other podcast job, I pivot to ads all the time, and I use the same voice by which I pivot to ads to talk about something I actually genuinely care about, which is you all being able to make this happen. Yeah. And. No, I know, but except these ones. No, just. There was no ads there. No. But there's people that we like. And if you Support us at $10 a month, we'll send you a zine anywhere in the world once a month. If you Support us at $20 a month, not only will we do that, but we will also read your name in the credits of kind of everything we do. And not just your name, but whatever weird shit you want to make us say. So with that in mind, we'd really like to thank the people who made this happen. We would like to thank people and dogs and cats who made this happen, like Hoss the dog, Nicole and Tivka the dog. Micaiah, Chris, Kirk, Micah, Dana, David, Paige, sj, Theo, Millica, Papa Runa, Allie, Janice and Odell. Princess Miranda, Community Books of Stone Mountain, Georgia, Lord Harken, Carson, Julia, xceenredx. That's probably a username. Boldfield, Portland's Hedron Hackerspace, Appalachian Liberation Library, Ephemeral Amber, Sunshine. Also the concept of sunshine, but in addition, the specific person. Aiden and Yuki the dog. Jenny and Phoebe the cats. Jason, Shulva, Blink Cat Ferrell. In West Virginia, the Massachusetts chapter of the Socialist Rifle association, the Canadian Socialist Rifle Association. Karen Lancaster chooses Love Enchanted Rats of Turtle Island. Max Hyuni, A Future for Abby Alexander, Gopal, the Incredible Renai, the Ko Initiative, the Golden Gate 26 Tiny Nonsense Mark, your Canadian friend, Mr. Crafty Sarah Baby Acab and her three great pups, TSNB Opticuna, the Athens People assembly of Athens, Georgia, the Astoria Food Pantry, the Keweenaw Socialists, Pocono Pink Pistols, the Truth that We Will Outlive Them. And then also Simon Wheel, Staying Hydrated, brought to you by Hannah Potatoes, Tenebris Press Arguing about what to shout out experimental farm network accordions. I have two of them. Although one of them is important. Currently working on. So I can give it to a child. If you're the child who's listening.

Don't know.

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It's not actually. It's just something someone wanted us to shout out.

Yay. All right, all right. Everyone take care of each other. Free Palestine. Fuck ice. We will outlive them.